elementalhero: NO PANTS (ξff | the darkest side of me)
Random ([personal profile] elementalhero) wrote2010-07-21 02:04 am

in b4 "lol your catholic schoolgirl is showing"

So I was on today's RP!S, and there was a secret about someone doing coke. It could have been true, or a troll secret, or whatever. But I found myself really disturbed by several replies. A lot of people replied condemning drug use, which is what I would have replied with if I weren't too chickenshit to reply to anything in rp!s (lol). But then a lot of people replied to those people to tell them to "stop being so judgmental" and that they were naive and stupid for saying "omg drugs are bad" because apparently, thinking that abuse of dangerous, illegal drugs like cocaine makes one a naive, stupid person.

I came away from that page disturbed and angered, mostly by a lot of people's cavalier attitude. I mean, I didn't reply after I read the secret because I was too busy rolling my eyes and thinking what idiots some people are, but it disturbed me that a lot of people seemed to condone illegal drug use because "it's a life decision" and something about "human experience" or whatever and just. no.

Drugs are bad. They aren't funny. They ruin lives. Not just the health of the people taking them, for whatever reasons, but the people involved in the actual drug selling process. People in Third World countries die every day for every gram of coke/heroin/whatever that rich suburban college kids buy and snort/smoke/inject for shits and giggles.

It's one thing to be on drugs and be out on the streets, with no other option, or in a dangerous business where that kind of thing is done. Honestly? I feel terribly over every memoir I read of people who made it out of the inner city and battled addictions to all kinds of substances, people who were depressed or felt they had no option. But affluent people doing drugs recreationally? For fun? Illegal, damaging, addictive drugs? That people die for? Even pot, which seems so harmless - pot, which funds the black market in all kinds of ways, the black market that also specializes in prostitution, human trafficking, other drugs, general life-ruining? Those people? I have no fucking sympathy for them. And to see people laugh something like that off and cast aspersions on people who try to speak up about the, you know, illegality of such actions? Fuck them.

I am probably betraying my inner sheltered white girl, and if so, please, speak up and tell me where I have spoken wrongly or insensitively.

[identity profile] anzila.livejournal.com 2010-07-21 06:14 am (UTC)(link)
Given I have two cousins who don't have fathers anymore because of drugs, and a brother who has almost thrown his life away for pot on several occasions, yeah, I'm really not that tolerant of those who condone drug usage.

Some people get dealt a bad hand and get in over their head before they realize what's going on, but those who glamorize drugs, or profit from their distribution, or use them when they damn well know what's going on, it makes me a little sick. What about all the families who get hurt, or all the crime committed to going into the sale? I've got to agree with you, and I think those people are being far more naive than you are.

[identity profile] okroginator.livejournal.com 2010-07-22 05:22 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, it's the glamorizing that really bothers me, I think.

[identity profile] venombites.livejournal.com 2010-07-21 07:04 am (UTC)(link)
You haven't spoken wrong or insensitively; your major point is that they are illegal for a reason, because they do ruin lives. I don't think either side was being mature on the matter. Even if a person was doing speed, so long as their conduct was not grossly disruptive (lmfao it's 2AM and I CAN BARELY THINK OF WHAT I WANT TO SAY), it's not their business and they shouldn't exactly be shamed or made out to be a disgusting person just for their addiction. If they have done something completely unforgivable, this may not apply.

To be honest I agree that drugs shouldn't be as heavily policed because I feel that people, in general, criminalize addiction rather than the actual people behind the sale--the growers, the makers, the sellers, etc.--and that infuriates me. People who are addicted become so because of a product that has been tampered purposefully so that a person can be addicted, come back, and waste their life to continue to get their fix. Cigarette companies did the same, there is very little difference except both cigarettes and alcohol have been an established market in both this country and other countries for a really long time.

idk what I'm really trying to get at, but I find that the issue isn't completely black or white--I honestly will always see it as gray, except perhaps in certain cases--and the fact that our system of government continues to punish addiction, rather than really going after the poeple who distribute the product. It may be because I live in an inner city area--yeah, I'm a white girl but I live not too far from Jersey City; drug crime has gone down but it's not unheard of--but it looks that way to me. I may be wrong, cops may take steps against both addicts and the people behind the product, but often than not there seems to be a worse treatment for people who find themselves addicted. If you're an addict you are considered below human.

klajjdkl;jf;a I BASICALLY FORGOT MY POINT AND I THINK I NEED TO SLEEP.

[identity profile] okroginator.livejournal.com 2010-07-22 05:25 am (UTC)(link)
I didn't mean to imply that the issue was black and white - you're right, there is a lot of gray. My beef was with the people who were shouting down those who spoke up and said, "I don't think it's funny/edgy/cool that you were doing drugs while performing mod duties," because apparently THAT MAKES YOU A NAIVE STUPID BITCH. And yeah, the criminalization of addiction is a terrible thing.

[identity profile] venombites.livejournal.com 2010-07-23 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I understand what you are saying a bit more. A mod should not, in all honesty, probably be doing drugs or admit to being on drugs while performing their duties. It doesn't make you a naive or stupid bitch but a practical one; a mod, again, probably should not be on drugs because their judgment could be compromised particularly if the comm is very likely to erupt in wank/discussion/very passionate arguments/etc. I think the important things is that people are treating this mod as subhuman for the fact that he or she has admitted to doing drugs, even if it is on occasionally and not an addiction, because that isn't right.

lmfao upon rereading my original comment i feel like a huge dick ;;;

[identity profile] alienchrist.livejournal.com 2010-07-21 07:22 am (UTC)(link)
I think it's a huge mistake to assume people who joke about a sensitive subject don't understand the gravity of it. Finding humor in darkness is a classic coping mechanism. People who have been the worst crap tend to have the best sense of humor about it - when you are surrounded with violence, or war, or abuse, many people begin to see it humorously because they cannot survive flying off the handle and getting upset every single time the subject comes up. They'd lose their minds or have no energy to do anything else. You say here "Drugs aren't funny, they ruin lives." But what I'm reading from it is, "The seriousness of drug use upsets me. I'm upset when people joke about it because I think it comes from indifference or not understanding their situation." But there must be room in the world for everyone to have an opinion, and just because someone does not share yours or express it in a method you find suitable does not necessarily mean they are callous and unfeeling. It's not as if a good person never makes bad jokes.

The war on drugs is a huge problem. I don't happen to find it as black and white as you seem to. In my opinion, criminalizing the drug trade only drove it under ground and gave the money and power to the wrong people, much like Prohibition did alcohol. And all of the temperance movement would have said the same of alcohol as you have about drugs. Please consider that.

In the end Prohibition did very little to stop the abuse of alcohol and it certainly didn't curb its availability to the public - in fact it made it more available to some people, such as women, with the advent of speakeasies. My point is, criminalizing a behavior rarely keeps people from doing it. In an already-stressed system of justice, it doesn't necessarily make sense to spend the time and resources it takes to keep putting people in jail over it. A lot of people would argue that much of what you dislike about illegal drugs - the exploitation and violence involved - come not from the nature of the users and suppliers, but from the fact that drugs are illegal, and therefore completely unregulated.

Abusing drugs is definitely bad for you, and the current illegal drug trade bad for society, but I think this 'blase' attitude about it comes from what a lot of people see as hypocrisy concerning the issue. Cigarettes and alcohol are still legal, as are fast foods and video games that are tailor-made to be addictive. All of these things have a potential to ruin lives, yet they are legal. The diamond trade and the oil trade are the cause of a great deal of war and strife, and yet they do not suffer the same demonization (well, the oil trade is getting there...). Not to mention the outright lies included in a lot of anti-drug campaigning, particularly in its early years, which are rather akin to the puritanical mythos surrounding the abstinence only attitude about sexual eduction. Attempting to scare people into not using drugs just meant that the real warnings and dangers about it go further unnoticed, having come from an unreliable authority.

To be honest, I'm not interested in doing drugs and I know people whose lives it's ruined. I would never downplay the seriousness of drug addiction or trafficking, and I would have trouble respecting someone who did coke simply because of the high level of danger and its very addictive qualities - I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable enough around them to want to RP. I don't think that drugs are totally harmless, socially or chemically, but I also don't feel like it's as simple as 'they are bad and no one should do them ever', and I doubt I'm the only one. However, people tend to get pushed to one extreme or the other in these types of debates.

The Netherlands made pot legal and it hasn't exploded. At least not yet. I think they're onto something, honestly, but it's a much smaller, more liberal country than ours.

[identity profile] okroginator.livejournal.com 2010-07-22 05:51 am (UTC)(link)
First off, thanks for the long and thoughtful reply! ^^

To address your first point, I definitely didn't mean for it to come off that way, and looking up, I definitely used too many aggressive italics. Joking about drugs in general is not what bothered me - I've certainly made many drug-related jokes in my lifetime and I'll probably make more in the future.

The secret itself went something like, "I'm so dedicated to my game that I once accepted an app while coming off a coke high." Aside from the usual slew of "lol cool story bro"'s and cries of "troll in the dungeon," some commented saying things like, "I think your priorities are a bit screwed up," or, "I don't think that's necessarily an example of good dedication." Then, several anons commented to those comments, saying things like, "don't be so sheltered, people use drugs in the real world, shocking but true," and "how dare you judge the OP," and generally berating several commenters that spoke up against drug use.

What bothered me were the comments that belittled and berated people for speaking up against drugs, especially in the contemptuous way many of them were delivered. (Of course, there were also anti-drug commenters who were jerkasses, I am not trying to make this issue black and white.)

There is certainly dialogue to be had about the criminalization of the drug trade, the societal implications, the morality involved, the legal drugs that are just as bad as the illegal ones, but basically, what I was trying to get at with this entry was that I felt disturbed that so many people felt that someone using cocaine - a stereotypically "rich white person drug," as I discussed with [livejournal.com profile] flibbergibbet below - didn't need to bother considering any ramifications of their actions, such as supporting the violent, exploitative black market, doing damage to their bodies and minds, and causing sorrow and distress to their loved ones.

Again, thanks for giving me such a well-thought-out reply, and I feel more enlightened on this issue now that I've gotten to see some counterarguments not delivered by sarcastic anons with stupid GIFs.

[identity profile] okroginator.livejournal.com 2010-07-22 05:53 am (UTC)(link)
Also, regarding the Netherlands, I think we (Americans) have yet to achieve a baseline societal maturity that most of Europe seems to have. See also: minimum drinking age. :/
strange_quark: (st09: spock - live long and suck it)

[personal profile] strange_quark 2010-07-21 01:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I saw that secret too, and I was similarly... well, not quite disturbed by those comments because I'm so numb to that bullshit, but. Yeah.

Those comments kind of reinforced the reason I always have been, and always will be, wary of people who advocate for more lenient drug policies. Do I agree with some of their principals? Absolutely. (Marijuana being a Schedule 1 narcotic is the stupidest fucking thing, the way we prosecute drug cases punishes the victims more often than not, etc.) But--and I do realize that this is most likely due to over exposure to people who are the bad face of this movement, but--everyone I've ever met who gets really up in arms about how strict drug policies are end up engaging in this self-serving, masturbatory dialogue about how drugs are made out to be SO MUCH WORSE than they are, how dare you harsh my high.

Particularly with cocaine. Well, again this is probably personal experience because it's largely a rich white person drug and I grew up in a rich area, where people whined about how cocaine being illegal was UNFAIR in the same way that they whined about the fact that their daddy bought them a Mercedes for their 16th birthday, instead of the BMW they wanted. The entitlement these people feel really, really bothers me.

[identity profile] okroginator.livejournal.com 2010-07-22 05:28 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I was disturbed by those comments in conjunction with what I know about cocaine as a "rich white person drug," because combined, they seemed to paint a picture of a bunch of snotty affluent teenagers/young adults patting themselves on the back for engaging in more risky behavior without stopping to consider any consequences. The entitlement, I guess, is what I'm trying to get at. Not sure I'm making much sense in what I'm trying to get across.

[identity profile] waaaaaaaaaluigi.livejournal.com 2010-07-21 02:46 pm (UTC)(link)
WALUIGI HATES DRUGS. WAAH.

[identity profile] okroginator.livejournal.com 2010-07-22 05:29 am (UTC)(link)
Good boy, Waluigi. /pats him

[identity profile] ironyaficionado.livejournal.com 2010-07-22 03:14 pm (UTC)(link)
He's a good guy. And I really don't understand the principle of doing drugs like that. There's a saying that whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but if you wreck your shit early on, it just stays with you. The moral and sociopolitical implications are also far too valid to ignore.

[identity profile] the-sun-is-up.livejournal.com 2010-07-21 03:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Eeeewwww what the hell? Drugs are bad, the end. Cocaine in particular is especially bad, the end. (Also, RP-secrets is full of stupid and wank, the end.)

[identity profile] okroginator.livejournal.com 2010-07-22 05:29 am (UTC)(link)
As much as I wish the issue were that black and white, it seems there's a lot more to the situation than that, sadly.